A Conversation about Mental Health and Infertility
Our Senior Case Manager, Stephanie Fierro, explores infertility grief with Linda Kondilis, Founder of Orama Wellness, offering insights on navigating isolation and finding support in partners, family, and community. Here are some highlights from that conversation.
Stephanie:
I've let our audience know that you do specialize in reproductive health. Do you want to talk a little bit about what it is that your focus is on? I know that you do a lot of counseling around fertility, but maybe you can share a little bit more than that.
Linda:
Yes, I would love to share. Basically, myself and my colleagues focus on all areas of fertility, so we do a lot of individual and couples work and counseling. We also do a lot of third party reproduction work, and so we work in the space of egg donor sperm, donor embryo, donor surrogacy as well. And we also subspecialize within those spaces too, by having a psychologist on board who focuses on oncology, for example. So really we cover anything that has to do with anyone who needs support while they're trying to build their family.
Stephanie:
That's really great. Can you tell us what are some of the common emotional challenges you see in parents that are facing infertility?
Linda:
I think one of the biggest is grief, because grief is something that doesn't necessarily get resolved, right? Symptoms can sometimes come and go, or the intensity of them can really fluctuate depending on what is happening. But grief is always something that is a big factor and I think it's also hard to identify along with all the other things going on. And I think what really increases it is the isolation in the experience. I'm so thankful to have been invited to this space, quite honestly, because the more community building and the more connections made, can really help. It doesn't eliminate grief, but it can really help when you have other people around you who are joining you.
You can open the door for communication with family and friends, but you can also give them some boundaries on how you want to manage that moving forward.
Stephanie:
Definitely. And I think you hit something really important, which is isolation. And it kind of leads into my next question, which is for couples.Within a couple, one partner can feel really isolated even though both of them are going through this. Can you talk a little bit about some strategies or techniques that intended parents can use to maintain a strong relationship with their partner when they're going through infertility?
Linda:
Yes, absolutely. And I just had this conversation with someone who is moving towards couples therapy right now. What I was explaining was that one of the biggest factors is understanding that two people in a relationship might cope very differently. And so some of the work is identifying that. Also because some of the ways you might have coped related to something else in your life might look different from that. So really thinking about this as a couple. Okay, here's how I feel comfortable coping with this. Here are the techniques I want to use. And really finding out what their partner wants to do. For example, could we make room for your coping strategies and can we make room for my coping strategies at the same time? I think that's the biggest thing that we typically help people identify, understand, and then communicate and work through together.
Stephanie:
Definitely, identifying that and giving each other the space to do it. I think my next question was going to be how important the role of self-care and prioritizing your individual wellbeing while also both going through this together. I think it's important to recognize that the other person deals with it differently and how to give them that space to do so.
Linda:
Yes, and I think that's where else it can get a bit complicated for couples and individuals when you take on any family building path, you really have to take it on. I try to help people conceptualize it because sometimes it could be a full-time job. At minimum, it's a part-time job because you need to create the kind of space you would allow for a little bit more care. What I see in some folks is not being able to figure out what to prioritize in their life and feeling like something's got to give. Then it gets more complicated with partners because we have to get both people on that same page.
Stephanie:
It's true. What are some communication techniques that you recommend for parents to help them navigate these difficult conversations around infertility with family and friends?
Linda:
It's funny you said that. I'm just about to launch a workbook, on how to share. It's very complicated. But if I were to sum it up as briefly as possible, I think it's really about asking yourself things like "Am I sharing because I want to share, or am I sharing because I feel like I have to share?" Because not having that autonomy through a process that feels so out of your control is not great. You can open the door for communication with family and friends, but you can also give them some boundaries on how you want to manage that moving forward.
So for example, you could say, "Hey, I know you're really curious about my next steps and what's happening with me. Just so you know there are going to be some moments I want to talk about it and some I don't."
When I want to talk about it, I'll bring it up, please let me take the lead on that. If you check in with me and I say everything's fine, and I don't elaborate, just know I'm just not in the mood to talk about it. I just want to kind of distract myself and talk about the latest show I've been watching on TV or something.
So I come up with a lot of different techniques people can use so they can alter the self-disclosure over time, because at different points you may feel like opening up and other times you don't. And the last biggest tip I give to most people is just because you're sharing something that your community might not know about, doesn't mean you have to educate them on it all. Go send them to ASRM, go send them to YouTube, go send them to a Donor Concierge live. Ask them to go get educated. You cannot go through family building and be the educator of all things at the same time. This can really start activating burnout.
Stephanie:
Yes, definitely. Which gets me thinking about the cultural and religious beliefs when it comes to family and having those conversations, how difficult that can be because in certain, it's always, when are you having a baby? You've been married for this long, when is it happening? And that's really difficult for people to deal with.
Linda:
Yes, religious and societal pressures. I think with societal pressures leaning on one gender more than another, right? It's very complicated, and I think there's so much nuance into what kind of boundaries you need to put up for yourself in those spaces -- whether you vocalize that, or whether you might not attend something because you just feel like you're running on empty. But yeah, it's very complicated to navigate.
Stephanie:
Does that change your approach when you are, say, working with a couple whose cultural religious beliefs are really impacting the way that they're feeling and how they're approaching their infertility? How does your approach look differently at that point?
Linda:
I always have more questions than answers. So for me, I'm kind of exploring with folks about how important it is for you to feel that validation from say, an elder or a parent or somebody in your community that might have a different point of view? And then how does their point of view, and their focus on family building and having children, equate to worth? How much do you believe in that? Those are the things I'm trying to learn about the person before I launch in to say, "Hey, let's think about how to work through this because it is complicated and it's not a one size fits all." Especially with an individual and even more so with an entire family system.
Stephanie:
It's true, right? It's really about how are they feeling and why do they feel that they need to validate almost this person in a way, right? What kind of coping strategies would you give to intended parents who are dealing with the stress related to infertility?
Linda:
Yes. I love thinking about it in different categories. For a lot of folks that I work with, to sit still is very hard. So the idea of starting a meditation practice can sometimes seem very far off from where they are, and that's okay. Anytime you're going to restore your system, it can look differently. It might mean something as small as letting your body stretch, walking out the door, trying to get in nature, phoning a friend. Any restorative practice, I really encourage. And whenever I work with an individual, I always try to learn a lot about them.
Little projects, such as reaching out to friends, having them drop stuff off so they have more room to do things, go for a walk, sometimes it's breathing work. So yeah, it's things that are creative, things that are active, things that are inactive. We need a variety because we don't know, especially if the person receiving a lot of the treatment, how someone's going to feel physically.
Stephanie:
I love that. It sounds like you like to focus on the strengths that they already have, and how to build off of that and help them through it. What are some resources or support networks for intended parents that maybe you refer them to or that they can look into to join and get some extra support?
Linda:
I really encourage them to look into their community and what their community hosts through resolve or through social media with the idea of, hey, sometimes social media can really activate a lot of negative feelings, but if you really curate it in a way that is a good fit for you, I think social media is a phenomenal place to be able to find community. I really encourage people in their workspace also to consider creating it because more and more people are beginning to open up, and I have seen some really strong groups actually be created in the workplace around this as well. And in some, I won't name names, but some corporations were even helping out with facilitating some group around that.
Stephanie:
That's awesome. Definitely, social media can be good and bad, but I think you're right. You can curate it in a way where you go down the good rabbit hole.
Linda:
It takes a little extra work, so you've got to put a little energy towards it. But right now, that's the easiest way to activate community when you're not feeling is up to being out and about or you have so many doctor's appointments that it doesn't feel like a lot else can fit.
Stephanie:
Definitely. I heard you talk about control and autonomy and no longer having that for any of our audience out there. If there's one thing you would say to them in terms of relying on third party reproduction, what would you say?
Linda:
I think I'd like to say that this is one of the most unfortunate parts of life, and in general, is that things are just not always in our control. It's not easy to be able to get to a place where you accept that. But guess what? You can be on your path towards acceptance and still make decisions that get you close to where you want to be no matter what.
Being a parent is important to you. You might not be able to accept that you can't build your family the way you want. And that's okay. Maybe at some point you will, regardless, it doesn't matter. You can still take steps to move towards that if it's something that's really important to you.
So I always encourage people not to wrestle too much with their feelings. Just let them be. Let them show themselves over time. What's most important is that you allow yourself to explore. Even if at one point in life you thought, oh, I'm never going to do that. We change, we grow. Life happens. Coming to a place of acceptance and letting go, it's much easier said than done. Give it time to keep moving.
You'll know where you need to land. You'll feel it. You'll know when you get there, but sometimes it just takes exploring to get those answers.
Stephanie:
I love that. Thank you so much for joining us. This was great.
Linda:
Well, thank you, Stephanie. It's so great connecting, and if anybody has any questions that come through later, I'd always be happy to answer them too. And please let me know if I can be a resource to anyone here.
Stephanie:
Of course. Can you tell us a little bit about the workbook?
Linda:
I think we could expect to launch it in a week or two and I'll have it on my website, www.oramawellness.com. It's going to be a great tool for people as they're trying to figure out sharing with others about what they're going through. I think it might be a very validating experience for people because it's complicated to talk about fertility still today in 2024.
Stephanie:
Yes, definitely.
Linda:
I hope this workbook can alleviate some of that challenge.
Stephanie:
We would love to share that with our Intended Parents. Thank you so much, Linda, for joining us.
Linda:
Thank you. And please reach out, if I can be an extra resource.
